Curse

Thizzle · Jul 21, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

I'm pretty sure nobody cares about your build. They care about the team build.
Did you randomway to rank 0.5?

Do you even log on to Guild Wars? It's 12:03 AM PST (GMT -8 ) and you are expecting to HA while everyone in the world is either working or asleep. This is the most dead hour of Guild Wars. You really expect to stereotype the entire PvP scene with one time?

You clearly don't have common sense (which, unfortunately, in Guild Wars, isn't very common). Common sense is required for PvP. By that, I substantiate my argument with "zero experience" in a true PvP scene. Even though, HA isn't really competitive PvP; it's just gimmick heaven. X beats Y. Y beats Z. Z beats X.

I'm in America. I go by Eastern Stadard Time. I made this thread at 08:48 PM. I think you're the one that doesn't have enough common sense.

I'm pretty sure nobody cares about your build. They care about the team build.
Did you randomway to rank 0.5? My build is part of the "team build" unless you want a 7/8 team build, but then it's not a true team build now is it? I think "randomway" is such a vague term. It could mean just adding people and hoping for the best or using well random builds like the name sounds.

Do you even log on to Guild Wars? It's 12:03 AM PST (GMT -8 )
Hmm... I probably log in to Guild Wars if I started this thread yesterday ranting about Heroes' Ascent. After reading your post I need to ask you... Do you have any common sense?

Lykan · Jul 21, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelina Collins

I will tell you, the guy from boot camp, because he will most likely follow orders, as experienced soldiers may feel you are holding them back and abandon you. Medals, stripes don't mean sh*t, leadership is what keeps soliders together, and that means having the courage to except players and added them to the team based on their strenghs and weaknesses.

It's obvous that some players have very little experience with leadership, it's not an ability, it's an art.

HA isnt about follwing orders its knowing what to do without being told, If I was running a pug and I had to tell everybody what to do the whole time my head would explode.
I've won halls with random byob without vent without anyone calling strats simply because everyone in the team knew what to do.

In HA experience > All

EPO Bot · Jul 21, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

I don't care about rank. The problem is: Everyone else does.

upier · Jul 21, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Higher rank means prettier ponies!
(Well - that is up to 9 - everything after the cutie tiger is a let down!)

Can you guess who is not PvPing?

Kikuta · Jul 21, 2008, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Holy shit, you mean to tell me guilds have a use!?

1) Find a HA guild that trains
2) Get r3+
3) Quit bitching
4) ????
5) PROFIT!

rayd · Jul 21, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

I don't care about the rank, I just don't play with people I do not know.

I'm r5 and I play mostly with ranks 9-10

DO NOT PLAY sway/iway/ultimatelameshitway to get fame, it's worthless:
Just balance your way to mid ranks, at that time you'll know enough people to play with.

Also: Try finding a gvg guild, you'll meet high ranks and you'll eventually go HA with them, thats how I started on HA

Avarre · Jul 21, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

When I pugged HA a long time ago, we asked for r9+ for our group. This was for two reasons:

1) We wanted to ensure at least some level of competence. There are lots of players that say 'I'm r3 but I'm really good!!' If you're so good, why don't you have the rank? I have never seen a player who says that actually be good.

2) We had specific bars we wanted run that fit with the team build, without any space for modification. We pugged to fill gaps in our own roster, not to make room for new player styles. Therefore, we wanted the assurance that rank brings that the player would have all the skills unlocked.

Overall, I have to say point 2 was more important than point 1. We often let in players that messaged us that they were UAX but under rank 9, and if they did well in our view, we kept them with us until they had to leave or we stopped doing HA.

You can say rank doesn't matter, and that there are good players who are low rank and bad players who are high rank. Still, the facts remain: the low rank players have less experience in the setting, and if you honestly think that more high rank players are poor players than low rank are, you're insane. If I was going to PuG, and I had to pick a player randomly, I'm going with the safer bet of a ranked player. If they are bad, then I'll drop them afterwards.

The players we didn't ask rank for are the ones we already were familiar with - if we had guildies/friends who were low rank, but played with them and knew their capabilities, we had no problem with bringing them in. I got into that particular guild [kThx] because I had pugged with them a number of times and didn't get thrown out, and eventually I was LFGuild.

Edwards · Jul 21, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

I find it kind of amusing to read all the posts from PvE players who say rank doesn't mean anything, and that they're just as good as r12+ players, just you don't HA as much, or don't grind or w/e. Not counting GvGers, if you're under r3, there is a 99% chance that you are not as good as any r12+ players who didn't buy their rank. Getting such a high rank requires a significant time investment, probably equal or greater to most PvE titles. In that time, you're always learning. "Grinding fame" is not like farming Norn points. You're facing human players of varying skill level and ingenuity on different maps with different objectives every match. Even when the meta is dominated by one build, playing against it on relic runs or cap points, or in halls is very different than facing it in underworld. Not only that, but different groups can play the same build very differently. You have to remember that it's not as simple as countering somebody's build, you have to deal with their counter counters. Only with a lot of experience can you learn how best to play against differnt builds on different maps. When people say that a low ranked player might not know what to do on relic runs, they don't mean that they won't know to run the relic and snare/body block, they mean that they won't know WHEN to run the relic, WHEN, HOW, and WHERE to snare, HOW to best bodyblock, WHAT the best way to split to defend both the runner and your relic is, WHO should run the relic, HOW to pass the relic when you're bodyblocked, etc. Without knowing this, your team will lose.

Personally, I know that at rank 6, I am much, much better than I was at rank 3. Even though I thought I was pretty good at the time, after playing for another three ranks, my understanding of the format, and the game in general is much better. I know what I'm doing on all of the maps, whereas when I was rank 3, if my group got a skip I'd often find myself saying "well, I don't play this map very often, does anybody else want to call it?" Even when there was somebody in the group who was experienced and stepped up though, I'd find myself running around like a headless chicken. That being said, I'm by no means a great or even good player now. By the time I reach rank 9 (if I reach r9, lol), I imagine I'll be a better player still.

"Well, why can't a high ranked player bring me along to show me how to do these things then?" Because they want to win. Nobody can tell you everything about how to do your job that a higher ranked player would know from experience, simply because they have a job to do as well. Trying to explain everything a person has to do in PvP would be like trying to micro a hero and still play at 100% effectiveness the whole game. Everyone plays to win, which is why high ranked players are often reluctant to bring lower ranks with them.

It can be very frustrating to start out in HA with rank discrimination, retarded gimmicks, the chance of facing very good players early in the map rotation, etc. However, there's no point in whining about it. In this thread, a lot of the sympathetic messages come from people who frankly, have no idea what they're talking about. To go anywhere in PvP, you have to be willing to play a lot, and lose a lot. I joined a PvP guild in February, and in that time, we went from having some decent players, but being a terrible guild to winning halls a couple times a week. It was always kind of weird when we faced low ranked teams who would say in all chat that we were a great HA guild, which only proves my point further, in that we weren't great at all. We won mostly because of a lot of AoE coordinated by KDs, which is easy and OP in HA. But those low ranked players didn't know that, they jsut saw us win on obs and assumed we were really good.

The best way to sum up my point of view I think is to say that rank doesn't mean skill, but it does mean experience, which is vital to winning in HA. Because winning is the goal of HA, rank becomes an important indicator when looking for PUGs. Most people with a lot of quality experience earned it through a lot of losing. If you can't handle losing, don't PvP.

(wow, I got a bit carried away)

around · Jul 21, 2008, 10:32 AM // 10:32

This is speaking from a player who only has r3, but has been r3 for over two years:

The very first time I did any sort of serious PvP, it was making my own RSpike group wayyyy back when it was first meta. Never mind the fact that I had no experience, nor had I any idea what the hell I was doing. I knew I was shit so I advertised for unranked, knowing that I wouldn't get any good players to play with me.

I still had fun though, mainly because my expectations were so much lower. I considered it a good run if we made it past UW. I giggled whenever we 321'd someone cleanly. More importantly, I made friends and developed a friends list who I would regularly ask to play with me.

This lead on to a bunch of us forming our own guild, all because I had a friends list, and that was pretty much what set me on the course to being a hard, bitter PvP'r.

tl;dr stop being lazy and make friends - also, you're shit and you should be fully aware of your shitness.

masta_yoda · Jul 21, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

im pretty sure sway gets steamrolled 90% of the times and can only farm the first 3 maps...sway doesnt get the fame people say so... to much exxageration

too edward:, rank is skill ... go get a person whos never had a rank/ha'ed and lead a group before and see if he performs the same with someone who has rank

N1ghtstalker · Jul 21, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

i tried to go to HA once
couldn't find a group and my build was eligable cuz i got from pvx (*blush*)
never found a group
i was in the Hall of Heroes once and that was cuz my alliance mateys started a heroway group (god that was fun)
rank doesn't mean sh*t really
you just gotta know how to play your build and you can win
but for most people your rank shows how good you can play your build

Jenn · Jul 21, 2008, 11:04 AM // 11:04

I don't understand why people think "rank means nothing." It does - maybe not everything it should represent, and it is misguided, but it does separate most people. More fame means more experience, end of discussion. Even someone who IWayed rank 9 is better than someone stepping into HA for the first time - a lot better. Someone who balanced their way to rank 9 is also better than someone who IWayed to r9, but that's one of the flaws of the system - you can't tell how people earned their fame.

And enough of this talk about people buying fame. I'd say 99% of people in GW aren't even remotely likely to buy a rank that means anything. Buying a bambi means you have an emote - everyone knows a bambi does not mean you're a good player (exception: other PvP experience). How many people do you know that have bought enough fame to get to rank 9? And how long do you think they'd last in a good r9+ group before they got kicked?

You've got to be kidding yourself if you are r0 and think you're as good as even an r3, let alone 5, 8, 9+.

Vampyrija · Jul 21, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

I don't even want to try Heroes' Ascent anymore. It sucks because any HA guilds want r3+ which you can't get because groups won't let you in. This group I joined didn't even care about my build they just wanted rank. I was the one that made the comment about the Zaishen because I usually get a laugh when someone uses /zrank to me. I have little patience for that stupid gamer mentality.

Yet another topic about rank discrimination... C'mon, man! It's been like that since the beginning. It was already hard to find a PUG without a deer emote when HA was still located at Tombs, what do you expect 3 years after the game's been released and most hardcore HA'ers have either stopped GW or are r10/11+?

If you want to do some HA, find a small PvP guild with low PvP experience requirements so you can stop PUG'ing and play with the same people all the time. PUG'ing = fail, especially so at low ranks. I don't know if there are a lot of guilds like that around since I stopped PvP'ing a year ago but there sure should be some.

I stopped when I was about 1k from r10 after 18 months of more or less casual HA (had better things to do IG such as GvG'ing and farming) as I was fed up with playing with kids who thought they were pro gamers or something because they had a tiger or phoenix emote.

And rank doesn't mean you're a good player (I was almost r10 and I consider myself an average player), it just means you've spent a lot of time doing the same maps over and over again so of course, you do some things better than unranked/low ranked players most of whom are terrible (overextended frontline, monks who can't use channeling and veil properly, very bad positioning, guys who can't interrupt 1 sec casts, guys who stand in AoE etc).

Accursed · Jul 21, 2008, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Rank means they are probably either rich for paying the person 3k per fame or they are pretty good in PvP.

Either way, I wouldn't care less.

BlackSephir · Jul 21, 2008, 11:30 AM // 11:30

No, saw lots of bad players with shitty builds flashing their tiger.

The Meth · Jul 21, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Of course rank is important. rank 10 ursans >>>> noobs.

Oh wait, were talking about HA? People still pvp there? I thought Anet turned it into a PvE area with the AI randomly selecting between 3 or 4 builds while sometimes shit talking you.

/endsarcasm

At least 2/3rds of r6/9/12s are still crap players, but as long as the proportion of crap players in <r6 is higher you will have to put up with this. In the end the best advice is to try to find a decent guild so you wont have to put up with the crap (not just the rank discrimination) and never think of pugging in HA again.

Kusandaa · Jul 21, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

I'll never fully PUG HA, never, ever. Unless it starts on Guru you can count me out of PUGging this place - I don't mind going with a few guildies and PUGs, but PUGs have no effing patience in there, it's amazing.

My experience with rank stuff was actually in PvE. Yes, in PvE. People claiming that they're better than the whole group at this game because they've got rank... then they come in the team, set up a poorly designed build, bark orders at your team once in and then whine that you aren't doing good. They eventually rage.

Or leeroyers who yells at the monk because they've overextended. "I'm R6 I know what I'm doing!"...

It's sad that it's most of my experiences with PvPers in a PvE context. So in PvE, your rank doesn't mean **** (just like your armor and your weapons). SHOW me that you're good instead of bragging.

In a PvP context, since I'm not exactly the most competitive guy out there, and seeing the general player acting up in PvE doesn't exactly encourage me to PUG HA. The times I've been in, I was with guild or friend groups, the kind who will actually give you the time to learn something... when the friends themselves don't turn into a-holes. It's normal to get pwned when you KNOW that there are people GETTING USED to a build... but how do you want experience when they're expecting you to play flawlessly from first?

King Kong Monkey · Jul 21, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I am not a fan of rank discrimination but if you want too win you need a good team and not a team with players without any experience. Rank doesnt say anything about your skills, you can be really good without even a bit of fame. ( for the matter, im r6 so im not whining or something :P)

But HA is more than playing good, in the higher maps its all about tactics, like the relic run, shrine capture, normal altar capture..In my opinion tactics are in HoH more important then skills, ofcourse without any skills you couldnt get there.

Someone just starting with HA just dont got those tactics, that is why there is rank discrimination..they dont think you suck, but you just dont got the tactics too win..

If you want to earn fame, go join a pvp guild that just got started, find a nice balanced build, practice it a bit and then the fame will come slow but steady and then faster and faster as time goes on..

pumpkin pie · Jul 21, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Every ranked team should at least try to bring one un-rank player at least once a week

into HA. just to be nice, for the fun, for the sportmanship, for whatever reasons, you know, its a game, I would if I am a high ranked person.

I have gone with good players, i am talking rank 8/9 players in my guild, they will tell you what to do before going in, and its not that bad you know, like all the other comment here. if the rankless players listen, they will be able to do it, and running relic, need how many out of the 8 players to do, don't tell me you cannot let just one player in your group and put them as the least important role and let them experience and get to know how to HA. Its totally doable.

Just Another Chest Runner · Jul 21, 2008, 01:29 PM // 13:29

rank means nothing

for example what about all those gvg people who dont have high rank?

i'm pretty sure that if someone who had a gold cape but unranked (assuming they didnt buy a spot in the guild) tried to join a group, you'd probably take them